This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors.

Well, hello Prairie Lakes Church. Uh, welcome, happy July four weekend. Um, I hope, uh, hope it's been good for you. Um, I hope you took some time to, to just reflect a little bit and thank God for the country we live in, and the men and women who've made it that way.

And, um, in fact, I would say I even, uh, hope that you have eaten some hot dogs, watched some baseball Yeah. And launched some explosives in the air, if that was legal, where you are. Okay. Um, so, um, glad and that you have maybe, hopefully all of your, your digits still.

But, um, we have been in a series around here at Pray Lakes for the last, uh, three weeks now called Scrolling. Okay. And, uh, here's, here's been the idea of the series, the premise of this series. We're really talking about screens, um, and how much of our lives are lived in front of them, and what's that's like, stuff like that.

Yeah. Um, but, uh, we have to admit in this series that we've lost the battle. Okay. Um, which isn't, doesn't mean that we're, we're not fighting it, but, but, but screens have won the battle for our attention. They, they just have. Um, and, and because that's the case, we underestimate sometimes the time that we spend on them and the influence that they have on, on us.

Okay. So, in this series, we are just trying to kind of figure out how do we better pay more attention? Yeah. How do we pay more attention, uh, to our digital life so that we can live the life that God intended? Um, and so as we conclude this series, I've asked two of my redheaded red bearded brethren, um, at Pray Lakes of whom there are many, um, by design, I think we're taking over.

Um, but this is, uh, Simon Campbell and Cody Caraway. Um, and, uh, I'm gonna ask you guys to just kind of introduce yourselves. So I think, I think most of us know at least one, or maybe sometimes both of you. Um, but I just want you to take a couple seconds to share with our folks, what do you do here?

Like, what would you, what would you say you, you, you do here? And then, and then kind of help us understand why it's connected to what we're talking about this weekend. All right, Cody, you're up first. Yeah. So, like just said, my name is Cody and I'm our executive pastor of Digital and Reach, and there's really two parts to that.

Um, I lead, um, kind of digital tools and strategies to make no matter followers of Jesus who take next steps. Mm-Hmm. And the other part is I lead a central team of staff who's designed to reach new people and then also identify new locations for Pray Lake Church to expand.

And that sounded very official. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Hey, That's good. It's pretty good. It's a plus to you. Okay. Thanks. All right. Thank you for explaining that. All right, you're up. Yeah. So I'm Simon. I'm the Director of marketing and communications, and I'm on the digital strategy team.

And the communications side of my role is all about relationships and, and connecting people with our tools and best practices, um, to grow our connection with the church and build trust on our no matter mission. Um, and then the marketing side, which I don't know sometimes feels weird, you know, in the church to talk about marketing.

Um, but really that is all about reaching people outside the church and, um, extending that invitation to try it. And, uh, the challenge for us and our team is kind of re-imagining those ways to deliver the same invitations that Christians have always had to say, come see what Jesus is about.

Yes. Yep. Come see what the church is like, But how do we do that in 2024 given Right. All of the tools and all of the culture and everything else. Yeah. Yeah. There was, there's a, something that Jesus says when he's talking and calling Peter and Andrew that I think about a lot when we're in our meetings and coming up with strategies is he's telling them, now you're gonna fish for people.

Yeah. You know, they're fishermen by trade, and we're gonna figure out, so in the digital world, we're figuring out how to use those things to fish brew people in a different way. It's a great analogy. And so there's a couple things even from their explanation that I kind of wanna make sure you, you heard, uh, for some of us, the fact that we have a digital strategies team was brand new information.

And we have had that really since 20 21, 20 22, um, and have organized in this way. And it's been, it's, it's increasingly becoming a big part of how we live out our mission and vision around here. Um, number one and number two, these guys are super smart. Um, and so thank God, because the rest of us need him.

Okay. All right. So here's, here we go. Let's dive into this and, uh, as we do, okay. The big idea this weekend is really like, how, how do screens sometimes disconnect us or keep us disconnected, and what do we do with that? But there's gonna be a little bit of a runway to that.

And, uh, and really this, it kind of connects with the whole series idea. And so, um, here's where I wanna start. As, as we do that, I wanna start with awareness. Yes. Yep. It's a big piece. Um, so, so, and I know we've talked about some of this stuff before, um, so even, even in this series, but, but even if we need to kind of talk about 'em again, let's do that.

Um, and so here's, here's, here's the analogy, and I want you guys to kind of interact with maybe the 20, 24 version of it. I grew up in the eighties and nineties when you guys were not yet around maybe Okay. Of it. Um, and so, um, when I think about like, uh, the digital age that we're living in, and just how hard it is and to become aware of just how pervasive it is, Mm-Hmm.

I, as an eighties kid, nineties kid, think about, um, a very similar dynamic when it comes to like tobacco Yeah. And nicotine. Okay. And, and, and really like here, here's the thing. We knew it was bad for us, but we, it took us a while to, to do anything about it, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. So, so I mean, here's, here's the quick memory, and then I wanna ask you guys Okay. When, so when I was a kid, uh, Saturday mornings, Saturday mornings was, was donut morning. Okay. Every Saturday. Yeah. Yeah. And, and we would go with, usually it was my mom, unless she was out, and then it was my dad, but our mom would take us to the donut shop, and then we would pick out a donut, right?

Yep. But as a little kid, I remember walking into the donut shop and there was this, like, always this thick cloud of smoke just hanging in the air. Mm-Hmm. People just mowing down cigarettes and donuts at the same time.

You know, I mean, everywhere you went there was, there was a vending machine. There was like a pop machine, a snack machine, like a cigarette machine, throw a couple quarters in, get some cigarettes Right Now, eventually, you know, over those two decades, you know, we had, we had surgeon general's warnings, and then, um, you had legislation that kind of raised the price of some of the stuff, and then you couldn't smoke on airplanes, and there were non-smoking sections, and then there was eventually no smoking at all anywhere.

Right. We, we came around it, but there was a long time that we just, we knew it was bad for us. Mm-Hmm. We weren't doing anything about it, really. Yeah. Um, so is that, as you guys think about, you know, the digital age today, is it similar?

What, what are you guys seeing there? Yeah, it's interesting because like technology is moving at such a fast pace, and like, we just haven't kept up with the, like, is this good for us? Right. But like, what we do know is like, similar to smoking, there's a lot of negative impacts to, um, just the increased time in social media, in increased time on screens.

And that's like increased anxiety, high rates of depression. Um, our attention spans a lot smaller, uh, less quality sleep. So even as you go through those things, okay. Some of us Sure. You know? Yeah. Like, I guess anxiety feels slippery, uh, attention span, you know, feels slippery.

So, so we know some of these things. Mm-Hmm. Do you, do you have a sense of like, just how bad and how real that's, that's become Yeah. I mean, there's, uh, a ton of studies out there just to show like, just the increase in percentage and really the direct correlation to time spent on social media and on devices.

But the, the tough part to it is it, like, creates this cycle because the more time we spend on social media, the more we feel those things. Yes. And then the more we desire social connectedness and social validation. So where we go, when we do that, we go back to social media Yeah.

And then it worsens those symptoms, and then we go right back. And it just kind of creates this addictive cycle that we get kind of caught in. Yes. Yeah. And I think, like when you're talking about awareness, some of these things happen without triggering that for us, because the, our use of screens is, becomes so pervasive in our life that it feels inevitable.

Right. Kind of like the smoke cloud. Wherever you went, you just kind of felt like it's, it's gonna be there. This is the norm, This is the norm, this is what I gotta accept it. Right. And so I just, I think a lot of our usage, uh, the impact occurs to us without really triggering that awareness.

We're not seeing that because it's gradual, cumulative, all those things. Yeah. Yep. And I suppose probably added to that dynamic, um, and it's hard, this is probably where the analogy with tobacco breaks down, but certainly, um, when it comes to our digital lives makes it complex, is that not all digital habits are bad, right?

Correct. Right. I mean, you could make an argument that tobacco's, like, there's not a lot of positive, you know, things about besides how it makes you feel. Yeah. You Know, you have to squint pretty hard. Yeah. But it's not the same. I mean, like, I look at us, look at what we're all using right now, you know, so it, so it makes it, it difficult because, you know, sometimes you're gonna use this for personal productivity, sometimes you're gonna use this for entertainment in appropriate ways.

Mm-Hmm. And then there's this dark side of it that we're increasingly becoming aware of, but maybe still behind the, the eight ball on. Okay. So, so here's what I'd love for you guys to kind of share, even if it's just your subjective personal convictions.

Okay. Yep. What does it mean to be digitally healthy? How do you guys define that for you and your families? Yeah, I think like broad umbrella, like picture here, like to your point earlier, Jesse, like, it's not simply screen time. 'cause like not all screen time is equal.

There are like habit formation strategies and digital tools that are good. Like, if I am working out or tracking my meals or reading the Bible, like those are good uses of, um, screen time. Yeah. So it's really what percentage of that is the unhealthy screen time?

Yeah. Like the mindless scrolling, those things. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I think like the health really isn't just in the, like, digital component. It becomes behavioral. Yeah. Because we know, like in our attention war series, a couple years ago we talked about this, it, um, your inputs kind of determine your thought life Yes.

Which then impacts your beliefs, your heart, and then your actions. Yeah. So like, what, what's your thought life like? What are you running to when things get difficult? Yeah. What are your behaviors? And like, that's where I start to like monitor, like, am I healthy in my digital habits From that you kind of do I have boundaries or, um, guidelines that help Right, right.

Size that for me. Yeah. Am I okay? Yeah. With, you know, what, what that's doing. And then if there are patterns, like if I wanna avoid, or things that I want to dissuade myself from doing, like just creating friction around those, um, around those opportunities, around those patterns. Yeah.

Creating friction. How, what does that mean? Well, just, I mean, it can be simply things like, uh, res situating where that app is on my phone. How many, how many swipes do I have to do to get to there? Just so I'm cognizant of like, oh, I'm trying, I'm intentionally going to that spot on purpose.

Yeah. Rather than just sort of mindlessly Yeah. Yeah. Cody, I think as we were talking, you had something similar, but just it's like Yeah. Creating friction through the location of some of our physical devices. Yeah. So I'll, I'll do it for like, so I'm on Instagram, uh, but I do not have Instagram on my phone because I know if I do, it's way too easy for me to go to do something on my phone that I should be doing.

Yeah. Like a work related thing, and then all of a sudden, hey, Instagram's up and I am scrolling through reels. Yes. Um, so I've just added the friction of like, I'm not anti Instagram, but like my portion control with that is like, I'm going to go get my computer Yeah.

Or my iPad. Yeah. And then I have like more definitive blocks that I'm willing to Do that. I think this, this is a really good concept that I just wanna make sure everybody's kind of grabbing onto here.

Um, so, so really what you guys have both said is let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Mm-Hmm. Let's not be like either screens or no screens, team screens or team no screens. Sure. Let's not do that. Yep. Let's understand how are we using the screens?

Yep. What percentage of our attention is dedicated towards things through those screens that are not really right. Healthy, right. Not necessarily sinful, but just not useful. Yeah. Yep. You know, the, the, the, the analogy that I, I start to grab onto, and I, even for the last two years, um, I've just tried to tried and am continuing to try Yeah.

To, to form better eating habits. Okay. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. And one of the most helpful things in that for me has been, um, this app called Noom that I just track food, but, but it, it's built on the same premise, not all. Like food is food. Yeah. The problem is if you eat mostly bad food, even if it's the, your calor, it's just not as good for you.

Right? Yeah. As eating mostly good food. Same, same thing when it comes to screens, having a sense of, you know, what are we consuming that's kind of not great for us that we need to limit? What could we consume? Yeah. Would be, that would be a lot better for us. Yeah.

I, I like that. Absolutely. I like that. Part of the reason why I'm grateful that it's the three of us up here Mm-Hmm. Not just one of us, is that all of us are kind of in different stages. Um, and all of us are parents and we're parenting through different phases.

Right. Um, so, uh, Simon, I wanna start with you, so Sure. How, how old are you? 34. 34. And, uh, you guys have kids? Yeah. How old are they? We have two girls. Laura and I have two girls that are ages five and almost three.

Okay. Five and three. Okay. Cody, how old are you? 29. 29. Awesome. And then, uh, you guys have at least a couple of kids? Yeah. At least, at least two. So, no, uh, Sarah and I have four kids. Yeah. So 5, 3, 2, and 1, 5, 3, 2, and one.

Okay. So, so you guys are parenting kids and still that very early childhood phase. Totally. Right. Yep. Um, uh, Aaron and I have, uh, soon to be freshman in high school and a soon to be middle schooler, a sixth grader.

Okay. So we're, we're in that little bit of that older, older phase. Um, so, so, okay. So if, if we just talked about awareness, you guys, I'm sure are becoming increasingly aware of the impact that screens have on your kids.

Sure. And you guys are navigating what this is like as, as parents. Right. Um, so I wanna start here. Let's just talk about impact before we talk about like how you're managing it, right? Right. Yep. What kind of impact are you seeing screens have on on your guys' kids, even even five and under?

Yeah. I mean, right now we, we haven't done tablets or iPads and stuff for the girls yet. Um, so their only screen time is really through our family tv Mm-Hmm. And because of the ages that they are, we have complete control over the amount of screen time.

I mean, I can put the remote up high. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like, so some of that we recognize that that conversation that, um, that issue is gonna continue to become more complex Yeah. Over time. Um, and our, but we see the impact of what they're watching and how that's mirrored in their play and the things that they say, the phrases they say.

Um, my 5-year-old just had her preschool graduation, and when she was asked what she wanted to be when she grew up Sure. She said, Moana princess. Yeah. So, you know, we see the impact and it's, and the effect of those things.

Right. It's already modeling something for her. Right, right. Right. Okay. All right. Cody, same question to you. Yeah, I, um, uh, similar but a little different is we, we do have technology in our kids' lives in, in just a couple different areas, but, uh, there's the positive side of like, it is like a great tool for learning and development when it's like controlled, but then Mm-Hmm.

There's also the other side of like, um, the overstimulation, those things just, uh, we really see the impact in behavior. Yeah. Um, like they're different kids Yeah. Versus when they spend an hour outside versus an hour watching a high simulation show.

Yes. So there definitely is just a behavioral impact. Yes. Um, and the more that they spend on technology in other categories, it makes them want to do things like read, play outside, all those other good things less Yeah. Um, just because of the difference and for sure That, yeah.

I mean, similar, I mean, again, as you talked about, you, you do see it impact your kids a little bit differently as they get older. Totally. Um, but you know, for us, you know, I, I watch my kids almost become zombies. Okay. Um, and it, it does remind me even as a, as a kid, you know, when we, we didn't have mobile screens, but we had video games, you know?

Yeah. And you just, you just get in this Nintendo, you know, binge for hours and just come outta the basement, you know, just like, uh, You know, what Day is it your parents start yelling at you about things 'cause you're just a lazy sack. Right. Um, but I, I, I do, I watch my kids.

It's almost like, um, coming to a depressive state. Um, you know, and even when they were, were younger and having some interactions online, there was some, some things like anxiety or frustration or even sadness from some, from online interactions. You know, how are you managing this? Yeah. You know? Yeah.

So that, and, and then, and then maybe even at a deeper level, why are you managing it the way that you guys are We, some of it we limit by the like, actual technology piece itself. So like, um, our oldest Henry, um, and Arthur too. Um, both like listening to stories.

So we don't do that on an iPad. 'cause there's other things that they can do. We have what's called just a Yoda player, which is just a Mm-Hmm. A way too expensive piece of simple technology. But it, uh, basically you put cards in with like pre-approved stories, podcasts, things that they can listen to.

Yeah. Some's educational. Yeah. Like they can learn about the solar system or they can listen to a fun story. And they can do that without kind of the distraction or the depth that exists in like an iPad if we Something. And what's brilliant, such a smile to my face, right.

Because as you're describing, you're describing a, a device that you put a card in that you can kind of interact with. And I go like, oh, um, like speak and read when I was, you know, four. Right. Like what goes around comes around reinventing it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But you, but you know, it's kinda like a disconnected device that still is connected in the ways that we're used to being connected. Yeah.

Yep. Um, so like with technology as like a tool, an example of how we do that, like our kids, the only iPad usage they get is we'll sit down together. Um, we will do programmable legos. Yeah. So we'll build something and then together we'll kind of program it and we'll teach them some like coding principles based on what they're telling this Lego set to to do.

So, like that's one in this category. And then, um, like entertainment, like the, like it's more boundaries that we set, like typically at our best. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a show a day and it's during rest time. Yeah.

Um, and then in the summer we try to even lessen that, spend more time outside just because we know that's what's best for their brains and their brain development. And just like the neuroscience of like, what happens when kids watch TV are on devices for too long of a period of time.

Right. So. Right. Um, and there are the times where Sarah and I are both sick and we're tired and we're just like, we can't do this. We have the TV on for five episodes in a row. Right. While I trying to take a nap on the couch. I love it. Now let's, let's, let's, I would love to share a little bit about, you know, how we do it with a, you know, a pre-teen and a teenager.

Okay. And, uh, so I got no idea. They just do whatever they want, uh, all day every now. Um, so, so, um, this has been kind of an intentional thing for us. Um, um, my son has a phone now. Mm-Hmm. Um, but that was, we waited for him to have a phone until seventh grade.

That was, that's where, just where we were. They had tablets before then. Um, that were, that were obviously, you know, governed by a few different things, but no phone, um, and still no social media. Okay. Yeah. Um, none. Yeah.

Uh, the only thing we've done there is like, fa kids, it's like Facebook Messenger for kids. Um, we've done that. 'cause you can kind of limit who interacts with them and you can see all of that. Um, so, so that's, that's both been good for us. Um, and then now we're in the summer, so, so summers provide challenges for kids that age, obviously.

Sure. So here's, here's just, and this, again, this is just our convictions. This is just how we do it. Okay. Um, uh, we make a distinction between dumb screens and smart screens. What does That mean? Okay.

So, so dumb screens is scroll through YouTube Okay. And watch stupid videos. Got it. Got it. Yeah. Uh, watch, it's, right now it's Phineas and Verb. Okay. They watch Phineas and Ferb, which is horrible. It is just, you wanna just grate your teeth while watching something.

Um, I think that was around when I was a kid. Like, seriously? Oh yeah. Yes. Yeah. Um, so, so they're allowed to do just, hey, you know, zone out and rot your brain. Um, but at 10:00 AM that has to stop that. And we don't force it to stop.

Uh, meaning I don't design something in the environment or on the device that forces it to happen. I, I want them to lead themselves. Mm-Hmm. Okay. Um, and then if they screwed up, then we talked about that, right? Yeah. So dumb screens until 10 in the morning, and then no screens from 10 to 3:00 PM Okay.

Okay. Yeah. So they gotta go figure it out. Yep. Um, they're old enough now. They can hop on their bikes and go somewhere, you know, give 'em cash. Maybe they get grandma or mom or dad to take 'em to the pool or the golf course or whatever.

Right? Sure. Um, but, you know, five hours where you gotta figure it out. Okay. Mm-Hmm. And then we allow smart screens from 3:00 PM to dinner time. Okay. Smart screens for us are like educational, um, or like even even Minecraft where you're kind of building something together.

You're creating together, you're collaborating together. Mm-Hmm. You know, things like that that kind of engage their brain a little bit differently. Mm-Hmm. And then after dinner, no screens. Um, so we, we do, we want them to kind of feel like they have to be creative.

We want them to kind of have personal connections. We want 'em to go places and experience things, you know, and screens are entertainment and they can be educational. Right? So that's, that's just kind of how we do it. Uh, I would love for you guys to talk about what you're noticing, um, uh, in the people that, um, you're the closest to.

One of the things that really grew my own awareness of this, um, is a documentary on Netflix called Social Dilemma. Yeah. The interview creators of, and originators of some of these platforms and, um, and how the landscape has shifted over time Yes.

And how these tools are used. And I think one of the things that's just stuck in my mind so much is, is one of the interviewers and one of the sources said, if you are not paying for the product, you are the product. Hmm. So our, If you're not, if you're not paying for the product, You are the product. You are the product.

So because the social media platforms are free for us to use, like our attention becomes what they're selling our, um, access to our opinions, to our attention, to our, um, activity, our interactions, those are the things that are, are being sold. Yep. Um, being used to influence behavior for profit.

Right? Yes. So it's, it's in the platform's best interest always to grab our attention. So, however, however it can do that, it's, it's going to use those, it's sort of, um, morally neutral.

It doesn't matter. Like, it doesn't matter what is being shown to you as long as it keeps attention. Right. And so I think when we're, when we're talking about how this impacts, um, you know, people that we know, I I I've seen like over time, what is grabbing your attention can sort of create this isolation or echo chamber.

Yep. So that this is all I'm seeing. Yes. I can't really interact. It, you, it gets to a point where, um, when we're saturated in it so much we can't interact or even reckon with Yeah. Something that is contrary. Yeah.

So it's like, almost like everybody's operating on a different set of facts. And I've seen people that I love, um, Christians that I re respect Yeah. Um, get to a point where they're becoming disconnected from their church Yeah.

Because it doesn't align with some of the things that they're holding onto. Um, it, it's breaking down and disconnecting relationships within their family and causing tension. Um, because there, there's an increasing distance, there's this increasing isolation and echo chamber Yeah.

That we're wrapping ourselves in through our use of screens and, and Yes. And what the algorithm is giving us to keep our attention. Right. We've talked a lot about how technology shapes us. Yes. We also have the ability to shape the algorithm Absolutely.

To shape our, to shape our content and the controls that we've talked about, the parameters that we, that we use are for our scrolling. Um, but a lot of times, because the lack of awareness is there, we, we are not shaping it.

And by any extent, as much as it's shaping us. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Um, it's a great segue into the last thing we wanna talk about. Okay. And, uh, and that really is what does God's word have to say about all of this?

Okay. And, uh, this is the part that I'm probably the most excited about. Mm-Hmm. All right. Um, so let's, let's, let's go to the Bible and we're just gonna work through, um, just some different passages and references that as the three of us have kind of thought about this, these are the ones that we kind of go back to and we're just gonna talk about 'em a little bit.

Okay? Sure. Um, so what does God's word say to us in a relevant, um, kind of way, timeless kind of way when it comes to how we navigate even the issues of 2024 and beyond when it comes to this digital age and these screens that we're, we're in. Okay. Alright. So the first one's second Timothy four, three through five.

Okay. Lemme just read this. I'm gonna give you guys a platform to just kind of talk about it, but here's, here's what second Timothy says. Here's what Paul says to second Timothy. He says, the time's gonna come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.

Instead to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. Hmm. Right. Happened 2000 years ago. Even. They'll turn their ears away from the truth and they'll turn aside to myths.

But you keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist. Mm-Hmm. Discharge all the duties of your ministry. Why, what, what jumps out, uh, of scripture to you guys that's relevant for some of this conversation we're having? I mean, right away, like, when, when we're looking at this passage, it's almost like we're describing the same problem in different contexts.

Um, the, the the way that this problem presents itself in our time Yeah. Is new and different and digital and all those types of things. But Paul is, is writing about a lot of these same things to Timothy, a guy he was mentoring in ministry Yep.

And Timothy's really dealing with a, a competing teachers Yeah. That are around the churches that he and Paul ministered to and started and teaching things that were disconnecting them from, from the gospel, from Jesus and the church. Yep.

But very interesting things. Yes. Very attention grabbing things. Yes. Yes. And, and while that looks different today, we're, you know, we're speaking to that same problem. Um, we're accumulating teachers. Yep. That's really, that's a really, that's a really interesting, you're accumulating teachers and the question is, who's teaching you Yeah.

And how much of your attention is dedicated towards Jesus teaching you. Right. 'cause here's what Jesus teaches, and this is, this is the next one. Okay? Yep. Um, teacher, it's almost as though we planned this Yes.

Uh, teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law, talking to Jesus, calling him a teacher, which is, which is of all the things God said, which, which is the most important, which Jesus replied, um, vote for the right candidate. No, what I don't Says that it's right there.

He says, love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it. And we have a tendency to screw this interpretation up. Right. Because there's something in the language here that says, Hey, these two things are not one A and one B.

Right? Yep. These two things, it's a two part command. So love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Mm-Hmm. Love your neighbor as yourself. You cannot separate the one from the other. Yep. Okay. You can't subvert the one over the other. Right. All the law and the prophets hang on these two commands.

Okay. Um, so that's Matthew 22. In Matthew 28. Here's what he says. Jesus came to them and said, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations baptizing the name, the name of the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit teaching them to obey everything I've commanded you.

And surely I'm with you always, even to the very end of the age. This is when I go back to a lot Mm-Hmm. Um, when it comes to this thing. Because what I watch, especially from a pastoral position, is the outcome of when our attention has been grabbed by something other than Jesus, the outcome of that always is, other things are more important than what he says are most important.

So the very real cost that sometimes we don't, that we're more than willing to pay when we shouldn't pay this cost. The very real cost of allowing our attention to be grabbed by something other than Jesus is I give myself permission not to love someone else.

Mm-Hmm. Especially the kinds of people that Jesus say, Jesus says is most important to love my neighbor and my enemy. Yeah. Like the commander in chief of our righteous army Mm-Hmm. Who died for his enemies said his marching orders, most important thing to love God, love your neighbor and love your enemies.

And then he walked to a cross and he did, he did all three of those things. And then he goes, take a your cross and follow me. The most important, the most important, the thing that we go like we can never compromise on, we can never compromise on.

Mm-Hmm. Is loving God and neighbor and enemies. That's, that is our mark. Right? Mm-Hmm. And so, man, if whatever is captured our attention, um, it's kind of giving us permission to not do that. There's nothing more anti-Christ. Mm-Hmm. Than that. Mm-Hmm. Okay. Alright. We're gonna keep going.

I'm not gonna give you good. You guys can't say anything about that. I said everything that you said don't need to said. That's right. That's good. I could a full sentence. Okay. So here's the last one. Here's the last one. And this, this scripture is probably our, our rallying cry.

Mm-Hmm. Um, um, maybe all the time. And then certainly in election years, or certainly in, in areas that, that tend to be more divisive. Okay. It's John 17, uh, 20, uh, latter part of that verses 23.

And this is Jesus' High pre sleep prayer. So this is him. This is him going literally to save humanity. And he prays this prayer that we have recorded, and he has us in mind, like you and me, like people that are gonna believe way, way, way far down the line.

Okay. Here's what it says. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message. Meaning the people that had followed him, his disciples are gonna pass his message on to their disciples, their disciples, their disciples on down the line.

And here's what Jesus wants for us. I want all of them to be one. They may all be one father. Mm-Hmm. And if there's any doubt in what he meant by that, here's what he says. I want them to be one, just as you are in me and I and in you think about the unity between the father and the son.

Yeah. May they also be in us so that why, so that they can avoid all kinds of conflict so they can all think the same. So that, you know, everybody's just nice and polite all the time. So that political correctness may reign supreme.

Why I want them to be unified so that the world may believe that you have sent me. Jesus wants us to be unified in such a way where our message to this watching world is so clear Yes. That it points to who Jesus is and who his father is. I've given them the glory that you've given me.

That they may be one as we are one, I and them, and you and me, so that they may be brought to complete unity. And then the world will know that you sent me and you've loved them even as you have loved me. We've taken some arrows as a church sometimes for being a no matter church.

And usually the arrows that kind of come our way are pretty predictable. One of the most common ones is all you care about is reaching people. You don't really care about the truth. This passage art, I articulates and identifies why we are part of the reason why we are a no matter church.

Yeah. Mm-Hmm. It's primarily because we're concerned about the world. Yes. That causes us to go, yes. We gotta be really clear on the most important truth. Mm-Hmm. And we also have to be really clear on what's not as, so that it doesn't compete.

So that the watching world knows, hey, this church more than any sort of political platform, more than any other competing message, what they want us to know about is that there is a God, his son is Jesus and he's the way. Yes. Yep. And we don't want anybody else to compete with that message.

Amen. Amen. All right. Hey, uh, that is our, uh, time. Okay. And so thanks for hanging out with us. Um, thanks for joining us in this conversation. It's super important. It's one that we're gonna continue to have Simon Cody, thanks for, for joining us, uh, today.